Please note: if an earlier link doesn't work, it may have changed following an update! Check the Category Labels in the side-bar on the right! There you can find animator drafts for sixteen complete Disney features and eighty-six shorts,
as well as Action Analysis Classes and many other vintage animation documents!

Monday, March 02, 2009

Animating Forms vs. Forces   --Action Analysis Class of June 21st, 1937

This Don Graham Class gets into another very interesting issue: drawing forces instead of forms. Of course, it takes Bill Tytla as prime example of drawing forces. Here are some interesting insights into what was discussed during the final phases of Snow White.
They had come far since Steamboat Willie, animated only nine years earlier... The latter part of this evening discusses a live-action fall.

Among the audience we notice Jacques Roberts, Joe Magro, [Phil or Izzie] Klein, Bob McCrea, Cecil Beard, [Gilbert?] Rugg, Art Elliott, [Alec] Geiss, [John Vincent] Snyder, Leo Salkin and Jimmie Culhane. It is interesting to see that some of these folks are hard to trace to the Disney studio. They may have left there while assistants: e.g. does Geiss not have any Disney credits on Alberto Becattini's pages...
12 3456

In the last ten days there were only four comments, which I find quite disappointing, especially since most of my postings are from materials I have purchased for a considerable amount of my own money. Is there really nothing to say about these things? Preparing and posting this stuff takes up more of my time than it should...

[If you did NOT come from Mike Sporn's blog, you must check it out!]

[Tytla commented on this himself! I post it here!]

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Anonymous Michael Sporn says...

The animation of forces over forms has always intrigued me. It's probably why I am less drawn to brilliant but studied animators like Art Babbitt than to Bill Tytla, Grim Natwick or Bobe Cannon.
I wonder if any such measure could be drawn for cg animators?

Monday, March 2, 2009 at 5:18:00 AM PST  
Anonymous Marc says...

Hey there!

Just a quick, yet giant thanks for all this precious information you provide us!

Your blog is a goldmine!


Monday, March 2, 2009 at 9:34:00 AM PST  
Anonymous Robert says...

This is very interesting stuff to read. I recall brief excerpts of discussions like this in "Illusion of Life".

This is the first I've encoutered your blog but the lack of comments may just indicate that the material presented makes sense and doesn't incite disagreement.

Monday, March 2, 2009 at 5:14:00 PM PST  
Anonymous The Jerk says...

whoa, sweeet! more don Graham notes! thanks so much for posting this sort of thing so freely and often!

Monday, March 2, 2009 at 5:44:00 PM PST  
Anonymous jodie says...

Hey, your hard work is not in vain!!! I've been going through this blog for the past few weeks and have found a ton of valuable information. Especially the stuff in regard to timing to beats and music because you can't find information anywhere on how they did this.

I got one question on the Huemer on Timing post (I would have put this under that post but I wanted to say how awesome this blog is and don't stop posting.)

On page 5, Huemer says that the animator doesn't always have to know what the timing is on a fast action and he said very often the music is written afterwards.

I thought the music was always done first? Did they do the music first and time the animation to it for regular paced scenes and on fast actions wait until the animation was done and time the music to the animation since it was so fast?


Monday, March 2, 2009 at 6:52:00 PM PST  
Anonymous Hans Perk says...

Thanks for your comments, everyone! Keep'em coming!

Mike, thanks for the mention in your great posting of drawings for Prod 2001, Seq 6A "Dwarfs at Tub Washing", Sc 20! By the way, the scene is 24-07ft, or 16 sec 7 frs, according to the draft.

Jodie: in general, at Disney, the beat was determined by the director in conjunction with the musician in advance, but the music was written after the animation was finished, as they adjusted the footage and added or removed beats here and there. Only after this was done would the musician write the final score. This in contrast to e.g. Harman-Ising, where they recorded the music as soon as the film was timed, making for a very inflexible way of working...

On Huemer's remark: he notes that the action is roughly worked out: he mentions that the animator knows what time the music is in, in other words, he knows the beats. He does not HAVE to know the actual music. He just needs to try to fit things to that beat. If he can prove that he cannot, they would add a beat. If he did it faster, they might cut a beat, but that would be a rare occasion indeed!

Monday, March 2, 2009 at 7:27:00 PM PST  
Anonymous Paul Naas says...

Just discovered your blog through Michael Sporn's link. Hope it's not too late to encourage you to continue posting this amazing material. I've got hours of reading ahead of me...

Monday, March 2, 2009 at 9:14:00 PM PST  
Anonymous Keith Lango says...

@ Michael Sporn:
"I wonder if any such measure could be drawn for cg animators?"

I think so, but so far we haven't seen it put into practice much- if at all. By default CG is a 'forms' medium, oppressively so. It's so dominating that even trained 2d animators are blinded by it when they come to CG. It takes a lot of effort (mostly mental) to push those forms into shapes that work in the flow of motion in a more 'force' sort of way. But an underground movement is under way in some circles of CG animation (ie: not the big studios) where people are experimenting with this kind of stuff.

Tuesday, March 3, 2009 at 7:01:00 PM PST  
Anonymous Anonymous says...

Thanks for such a valuable notes. It's been of great help.

Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 10:34:00 AM PST  
Anonymous erikals says...

Thank You!! :) :)
Great scans/notes !

Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 12:41:00 PM PDT  

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